In the secretly recorded interview, boadcasted today in the Hungarian television Flores said that he went to Bolivia to defend Santa Cruz, in case of a civil war. He said to András Kepes that he had received a request to help defending Santa Cruz from government forces.
About one and half year ago, it appeared that Bolivia would plunge into a civil war. He had been asked to help organizing the defense of Santa Cruz, said Flores. Those who contacted him wanted a peaceful secession of Santa Cruz, by demonstrating force.
There was a chance that government forces will sweep through the city and we declare independence. We had got the money and the weapons acquiring them through illegal channels, continued Flores.
He crossed into Bolivia illegally from Brazil.
He hadn't asked commission for this project because of the love of his country, said Flores. "I have never been a mercenary and never will be" he said.
When he was asked about death, he said "Here too, a brick can fall on my head, how strange it would be". "If something will happen to me, it was destined to happen" he said.
This is basically, the gist of the interview.
Linda Szászvári, the girlfriend of Flores said he had had a heart attack in 2007, when the situation in Bolivia was pretty tense. He was angry and helpless that made him sick.
Comments: After this interview, we are no closer to figure out what actually happened to him and his men, during that eight months period they spent in Bolivia. It appears to be that the political situation in the country haven't evolved the way they expected. So they just stayed there waiting. If what the hotel management is saying true, they spent most of their time waiting in a hotel. We also know that Flores was busy writing his blog and creating graphics on his laptop.
It also remains a mystery why did they chose a hotel as their headquarter when undertaking such a dangerous mission, rather than settling down in a safe-house with escape routes. Hotels are full of security cameras and infected by secret service moles. Flores should have known this after all he was a soldier.
It is also unclear what roles he assigned to the people around him. It seems that only him and the Croatian Mario Tadic had battlefield experiences. The two Hungarians and the Irish man had none. Mystery upon mystery that probably never will be revealed.
The long awaited interview with Flores
Tuesday, April 21, 2009Posted by HungarianAmbiance at 4:42 PM
Labels: Hungary, The Bolivian dossier
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21 comments:
Interesting, I'd love to speak some hungarian and watch the whole interview. My view on this subject is that Rózsa went to Bolivia to participate in a civil war. When he realized there was no civil war going on, and it was not about to start, he decided to make it happen. How? Putting bombs against both goverment and opposition personnel to create chaos and make them accuse and finally attack each other. He surely did know how a civil works, he participated in the war in former Yugoslavia.
it is unfortunate but there are always rats as anonyme, people who are cowardly and dark eduardo was a man with power, with great force, some people can never understand what it means to be a real man. be a brave man who loves to fight for their ideals.
Byes Anonymous Rat
And what do we ensure that your name is Patricio Lynch? Rozsa was a murder. I am proud of my country that has managed to avert the danger of the terrorist.
morales is a terrorist or a war criminal if you like (remember, he ordered the execution of three people sleeping in the middle of the night in their hotel rooms in violation of his country's procedures and laws, obviously with no evidence to support his claims of assassination attempt) rozsa was a hero (he was never tried for any war crimes). everyone who really knew him loved him: people in his village, people in laslovo, people who fought with him against milosevic and greaterserbian ethnic cleansing in croatia, his friends, actors with whom he acted in the movie. all of them have only nice things to say about him. all of them praise him for his courage, his great soul, his solidarity with the oppressed everywhere. all of them admire him. it seems he was a trully great man. only morons who never met him, but are stupid and immoral enough to judge people on the basis of their own political agendas or are too jealous they themselves are not as brave and they themselves are really nobodies ever say bad things about him.
Morales is the president elected and confirmed in a referendum with over 60% of the vote. There was no more democratic and honest president than he in the history of the country.
yes, i see how democratic he is. executing people who wouldn't agree with him in cold blood and without trial, in police operations that also violate the country's laws and then covering up the truth, deleting info from the computers, turning off the cameras... if you are democratic and right then you have nothing to hide and nothing to be afraid from the truth.
also, i just love these referendums with comfirmations of presidents... i think saddam hussein had some and also mubarak... truly democratic countries... funny, i used to like morales more than any of the others until now, but not any more. now i can't stand to look at him. i hope there is an international investigation and that he is tried for these murders he ordered.
The interview can be viewed here:
http://www.mtv.hu/videotar/?id=42581
Well, its a FACT that Rózsa went to Bolivia to participate in a war: it's what he says in the interview. Too bad there was no war, so he had to improvise one. Don't expect people to believe that a band prepared to participate in a guerrilla against a democratically elected government would wait six months -they arrived in october- sleeping in hotels for the war to start. Come on!
Referendums in Bolivia have been aprobbed by international standards, something Hussein never had. Good try.
I'm sure Rózsa believed in what he did, he was brave and so on. Pity that this time he was defending a racist far right oligarchy instead than opressed people. A lot of ustachi also believed in what they were doing and were brave in the battlefield. So what?
Fact is there was a international militia training in Santa Cruz to take part in a civil war, and almost surely, trying to start it by attacking both sides. What did you expect the autorities to do? Let them finish their job?
The anonymous Rat :)
he went to bolivia to organize an army to defend santa cruz in case there is a violent break-up, which was supposed to be the means of last resort. they were hoping to get autonomy but to remain part of bolivia and obtained by peaceful means, or so i heard. so what is so wrong with regional autonomy, especially if people of different ethnic origin make a majority in the area or region concerned? and while all this was going on for six months the bolivian government had nothing to accuse them of, so they shot them dead, deleted all the info, turned off the security cameras during the raid (come on, not even morales believes there was an assassination plot against him. otherwise he would present us with all the evidence and never never would he give orders to delete them, he would have given us ample evidence of the shootout and the plot and the illegal activities of these men, but we have none. quite on the contrary everyone doubts his version of events).
the issue here is not whether santa cruz has the right to self-determination or whether santa cruz has the right to autonomy (as a result of a referendum) or whether morales has the right to defend his country from autonomy or self-determination of the eastern provinces, but rather that is seems most likely that morales had three people EXECUTED. so, even if these people were guilty of any CRIMES or even if to demand an autonomy is a crime, they should have been tried in fair trials, not extrajudicially executed. so now that they are dead we are all actually much more interested whether morales is guilty of the CRIME of ordering their murder. and you can't really compare possibly legitimate demands for autonomy or even self-determination with ustasha warcrimes, race laws and genocide or their fascist puppet state.
the point is that nothing can ever justify an extra-judicial execution, not even evidence of alleged plot to assassinate the president (which, it is now obvious, everyone believes to be bullshit, since morales has not only not presented any evidence to prove his slanderous and baseless allegations, but has actually destroyed all the evidence he could).
it seems that the ones plotting assassinations were the ones sitting in morales government and it would also seem that bolivia looks much more like a police state, than a democracy.
if you are a democracy and enjoy the popular support, have access to media, you don't have to assassinate people who disagree with you. you can just make fun of them and if they become too dangerous and act illegally, you can attempt to arrest them in line with your own laws and try them in fair and imparial court of law.
"Assasinate people who disagrees with you". Well, that's your opinion, I'm talking about facts. It's not that they disagree. You don't "disagree" posing with guns and machine guns, do you? They went to Bolivia searching for a civil war they didn't find.
If the idea was to kill them, thay would have killed ALL of them, not letting any witness alive (Tadic and Tóásó).
You say it was an execution, with no proof. What I say is with a proof (Rózsa interview) and when I don't have a proof, I say it's an opinion (i.e., they were trying to start the civil war they were prepared for).
Santa Cruz DO have autonomy, as it is guarantedd in the constitution approved last january. They don't have ALL the autonomy the Comité Santa Cruz want? Ok, too bad, that's democracy, Comiteé pro Santa Cruz does NOT represent all Santa Cruz, if they really want to be a part of Bolivia they should respect the constitution.
Thing is that the Cruceñistas are too brave showing off, but when they want to have an army they ask for help in another country and tell them some fantastic tales about dictatorship which simply are not true. They cannot do that in Santa Cruz because vast majority of cruceños don't think a war is an option. Rózsa thought it was.
I bet that if a bunch of Bolivian soldiers went to Croatia, armed with guns and bombs, trying to separate Krajina to give it to Serbia, they would have a similar fate, and you would be defending croatian government then.
look man, you cannot kill people just because of their political beliefs or because they are posing with guns.
unfortunately i don't speak hungarian, but what i heard of that interview related by journalists is that they wanted an autonomy through peaceful means and that the army was supposed to be there in case santa cruz is attacked by morales forces and has to secede violently. (they were not planning to attack the rest of bolivia, they were not planning to ethnically cleanse santa cruz of people of other ethnicities and annex it to another state, they were supposed to defend santa cruz, where supposedly majority of people want autonomy.)
may i remind you that flores is bolivian. and also that this interview is from before "last january" (i don't know much about situation in bolivia actually)
so why do you think flores thought war is an option on the basis of the interview conducted before last january? (even the photograph with guns is from before last january) because morales killed him for his political electoral gains?
hungarian ministar of foreign affairs thinks it's likely they have been victims of political games in bolivia:
Hungarian foreign minister Péter Balázs said he doubted Mr. Rózsa and the others were plotting assassinations. "We can assume that they have become the victims of domestic Bolivian politics," Mr. Balazs said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124035994232641427.html
whatever my personal political attitudes in regards to any of the situations whether in bolivia or croatia are, i would never approve of anyone's execution.
Again, YOU say it's an execution, without a proof. Police say there was a fight. Opposition say it was an execution. I cannot say what happened until there is a investigation, can you? Apparently you can: you say it was an execution without a proof, for your political views convenience.
No one will admit they're practising ethnic cleansing, but believe me: is Comité por Santa Cruz who says Morales is a "damn indian", part of a "doomed race", not the other way around. You won't hear Morales speaking about race to critisize others. Try to find a video of that. Believe me, I've been to Santa Cruz and there's plenty of racism there. Example: "It's not our fault that they are black and ugly and poor, and we are white and more decent" (minute 2'01"). Words by a pro Comité demonstrator lasy may. There's one similar by a lady from the Comité, I'll try to find it cause I haven't yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6UFxk_isyg
I've been several times to Bolivia and I know what is going there. Rozsa haden't been there for years, so he believed what he was told by camba-ustachi-fascists.
In january there was referendum -again, aprobbed by international standards- in which a new constitution was aproved. It aproves autonomy under certain rules, as any constituion who admits autonomy does. The only violence that has been since then was some bombs in Santa Cruz, precisely where Rózsa and friend were training. Coincidence? Ok, lets wait for investigations...
I dont' aprove any execution, YOU think I do to make the argument easier for you, but I haven't say that... I dont think it was an execution, but I'll wait for proofs. In the begining the opposition say everything was a show, an invention of the government, everything made up. Now the video is available, they admit "ok, there was militia, ok, they had guns and bombs, ok, it was hired by people in Santa Cruz, ok, they were training against government, BUT now, hold on... It was an execution!! Outrageous!" How's trying to change the subject?
Again, do you really think that the milita crossed the whole world, and then stayed in Santa Cruz for six months, sleeping in hotels, waiting for the civil war to start? Come on!
no, now i think maybe after the autonomy in last january there was no need anymore to train the army so much and maybe that is why they were just hanging out there in hotels, posting on blogs stuff that has nothing to do with bolivia. maybe they were just waiting a couple more months and then they would return home, like planned, like maybe to get married back home in hungary like eduardo was supposedly planning to do this summer?
actually i never said that there wasn't a militia or that they haven't had guns... quite on the contrary, i said that there was, since i read it here on this site on the day after the murders and now you also have it on the interview recording.
i said: there was no assassination plot to kill morales. they were not terrorists trying to kill morales or any of the people in his government. and ever since i saw the pictures of the dead bodies (3 of them) in underwear with no guns anywhere in sight i've been saying that it was an extrajudicial execution or an assassination. and this is all that has mattered to me right from the beginning. they murdered eduardo for no reason. if you can bring him back to life, that would be great and we wouldn't have to have this conversation at all.
so why would morales have to invent an unexisting assassination plot? why were the cameras turned off? why were the people killed in the middle of the night (no shootout according to witnesses and also i have not seen any pictures showing any damage from the "shoot out" and also no one from the bolivian security forces was even hurt) and then kept there for 12 hours? - my guess is: to plant guns and ammunition brought from the outside inside the hotel. what kind of person would have guns in a hotel room anyway where chambermaids and other personnel come in all the time? don't you think they would be afraid of being reported to the police?
why have they deleted the information from the hotel computers?
it is clear morales not only executed unarmed people sleeping in their underwear in the middle of the night, he also destroyed the evidence of his crime and then he consciously and deliberately falsely accused his victims of wanting to kill him and planted doubtful "evidence".
just because a group is racist does not mean you can kill people involved with them. no one can be punished for crimes he has not committed and everyone has the right to a fair and impartial trial. all are innocent until proven guilty.
already now i can tell you that i won't believe in results of morales "investigation". (he already said he is "capable of trying them himself" (?) and then in the next sentence he explained that they were guilty of plotting to assassinate him. so he has already tried them himself, reached his verdict, decided they were guilty and he has already executed some of them)
only an impartial and fair international investigation will be credible enough for me.
also those people he has imprisoned, they were illtreated at the very least, if not tortured. morales forces put blankets over their heads when transferring them to another prison, but we already saw their faces on the internet and we know their names. it was just to cover that they have been tortured, not to hide their identity. information obtained through torture is not reliable and cannot be accepted as evidence in fair trials.
i'm so glad that now eduardo and his associates are dead there will be no civil war in bolivia.*
don't you see - whatever explanation you come up with - the FACT REMAINS: THE ONLY VICTIMS HERE are the three dead men. everyone else (besides to other 2 tortured ones in the prison) is ALIVE AND WELL. there was no crime, only unlawful punishment for a crime never committed - preemptive "justice".
*sarcasm intended
Well, you could say that police acted brutally and unjustified, but instead you say everything was Morales (Morales killed, Morales put blankets, etc). Morales was travelling to Venezuela. Assuming that your theory is right (which is only a guess, good you use that verb for the first time) it could be responsability of the police. But you prefer to say it was Morales himself who gave the orders. That may me think your guesses are for political reasons...
If they wanted to "make it look look a shoot off", they would have put guns in the hands of the bodies, and even dressed the bodies, Colombian style (some peasants were killed there, disguised as guerrillas only to get the reward offered by Uribe's government). If it was 3 am it was logical they were in underwere.
If they covered the faces of Toaso and Tadic because they had been tortured, why do they showed them a few hours later?
I don't think the only plot was to kill Morales. They were there to create anarchy (my guess), so killing Morales, members of the government or the opposition was ok for their goals: make the civil war start once and again.
There's one picture (http://abi.bo/fotografias/2009/04/21/0044.jpg) of Eduardo sleeping in a hotel room surrounded with guns. I don't know if it was inside the hotel SC or another, but fact is that he did use to carry guns in hotels, so why should I Believe not this time?
Just to finish this: if police killed them unnecesarily, I wish they (o whoever the responsibles are) are put under justice. Would you do the same if it is finally proven that Rozsa and friends were not "hanging out in hotels" (why? he was about to marry, why stay four months longer doing nothing at all?) but putting bombs to make a civil war start?
you know what?.. you are speaking because you dont know how is the real Bolivia and how is Morales. I am Bolivian and i would tell you guys that Morales is the worse president we ever had. He support Narcotrafic, guns traffic, racism, and so on.
where is the human rights? haa?..
i really dont know what Roszas was doing in Santa Cruz, but i dont think he was doing nothing wrong. That people just need to have a plan B in case Morales hit Santa Cruz allocating his people and killing all the owners of lands...
and yes, Morales won the elections, it is true, with a high level of fraud and corruption.. and Bolivia has 67% of native people whith no education like him..
morales ordered the "action". he said so himself. now they say they were tortured...
the picture morales (obviously it's a lawless country where laws are broken at morales' will and where people have no human rights and no legal protection. the government forces act like mafia and execute people in cold blood, then destroy the evidence, for god's sake) is now "leaking" to the media is from eduardo's blog and is at least 4 months old. (the other one with the young hungarian i think, also is from facebook - or so i read on an irish forum) why would they put these pictures on their sites themselves if there was a clandestine operation to assassinate morales. probably to help morales with "investigation" and finding "evidence". they were perfect to frame "an assassination".
they were "interrogated" for hours and then killed even though they committed no crime just so morales would weaken his opposition and he could play the victim. these are acts of criminals and murderers not of respectful police and government. all need to be prosecuted and imprisoned, but again, morales too, as he said himself he ordered the "operation".
or is morales now investigating his own forces' conduct and planning to try them in a fair and impartial court of law?
no, he's pretending there was an assassination plot against him, even though he knows it was all his invention.
oh, and my reasons are not at all political. (i like the indigenous people and leftists. or at least i used to like leftists... i do however now hate morales) my reasons are humane and also personal.
This guy was a douche, an action thrill seeker not a patriot, I'm glad he is dead and hopefully they will they be able to disband these sad bunch of anarchist and racists trying to break up Bolivia.
oh, i see. so sometimes murder and torture are just ok, even desirable. provided that, on the basis of your own perception based on god knows what, you don't like the victim, brand them racists or whatever you find convenient,that you disagree with their political beliefs or with their preferences. well that's so much more humane and democratic than what morales (who killed them, and not the other way around) says they were going to do to him.
Please, if you haven't been to Santa cruz don't even speak, obiously you don't now about the rampant racism against andean people there, Thats what this dude was supporting, I'm sure Evo ordered their detention but things in situations like this things can get ugly quickly and there you have it, armed suspects, trigger happy police, what do you expect handshakes? I for one don't want dicks like this guy
breaking up My Bolivia, we can remember what happened to Yugoslavia, and how the muslims got treated, how many Bosnian towns were "cleaned"
probably with the help if this douche, who later turns muslim, great atonement, what a fag turncoat.
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