La Prensa reported that since 2006 Flores made at least, sixty visits into Bolivia. César Navarro, the president of the investigating commission said that Flores had been traveling all over the region including Argentina and Brazil.
However, Ádám Horváth, a friend of Flores and one time colleague said that these reports were ridiculous fabrications. During this period, Flores never visited Bolivia or the countries mentioned by César Navarro.
Flores left Hungary only two times in 2006 and 2007. As part of a delegation carrying aid, he went to Somalia and Indonesia. Other than that, he stayed in Hungary. This can easily be proven by video tapes, newspaper articles and hundreds of witnesses.
Ádám Horváth said that the Bolivian government could step into a trap by making up these fabrications.
During these years, Flores had serious financial difficulties that prevented him even to go to his mother's funeral in 2007.
Comment:It seems to me that Bolivian authorities have no evidence at all that would aid their original claims about the alleged plot. Now, they are looking for something, anything that would even remotely support their original story about the plotters. That's why they are coming up with unbelievable stories week after week about the incident and the circumstances surrounding it. If it is true what Ádám Horváth said that Flores stayed in Hungary, in 2006 and 2007, Bolivian authorities might loose even the little credibility that left after turning out that none of the initial claims about killing Flores and his friends were true--there was no shootout in the hotel during the security operation and no weapons were found in any of the alleged plotters' rooms. I wonder what surprises Bolivian authorities have in store for us for the next week.
(barikad.hu – hungarianambiance.com)
Ádám Horváth: Flores didn't go to Bolivia in 2006
Thursday, May 28, 2009Posted by HungarianAmbiance at 9:31 PM
Labels: The Bolivian dossier
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11 comments:
well, probably he also occasionally went to croatia... as i read in the papers he went to croatia every year to the anniversary of the fall of Szentlászló, 24th of november, i think...? he was also in croatia sometime in summer last year, according to some news reports...? possibly it is meant here he didn't travel anywhere else by plane...
this would really require hungarian officials to check official records and make a statement about it, though it is also very useful and credible if there are ordinary people who could be witnesses able to dispute and deny these claims. if it could be proven that he was in hungary, croatia or somewhere else at least at some of these dates, either by witnesses or recorded material etc... (i agree that it is pretty clear that the bolivian "investigation" has no credibility whatsoever, but this would be a chance to prove they are wrong since they came out with acutal "facts" like dates and places and not just rumours or their version of events that can't be verified from here)
even if no one knew he supposedly went to bolivia, probably his friends would have noticed he's not in hungary during longer periods... and if he would say that he was unable to travel for his mother's funeral, than probably he was not absent often and for longer periods of time?
it is vital that the hungarian authorities either confirm or deny these claims as true or false...
cesar navarro is from morales' MAS party, but heading the parlamentarian investigation and these data is supposedly from some bolivian avio-company...
for example:
http://www.youtube.com/user/eduflores
joined: June 30, 2006
Presently, Eduardo works as blahblahblah.... He has a loving dog named Tito
does he? have a dog? who took care of the dog when he was supposedly in bolivia? a person who would take care of the dog (provided the dog exists) would know if eduardo was often and/or for longer periods absent from home...
unfortunately, these dates and places do not seem to present full routes of alleged itineraries and their duration... i mean they do not show where and when does a particular entire journey start and where does it end.
here's eduardo with "one of his dogs"
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-AX264_BOLIVI_D_20090421183537.jpg
"in june" supposedly last year
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124035994232641427.html
so i would say, he definitely had at least one dog... but then he could have put it in a dog hotel while away and not always ask the same person to take care of the dog while he's away... anyway it was just a thought...
but what kind of person would go around travelling all the time all over south america for several years with god only knows what purpose and at the same time keep pets at home in hungary
It might be that officials are working on something in the background that could get them out from the predicament they maneuvered themselves. This is pure speculation, but not impossible to imagine that at some point, they will come up with a new scenario, saying that killing Flores and his friends were the result of mistaken identity, for instance. With a version like this, they could get out from this increasingly uncomfortable situation relatively clean. The claims about Flores travels might be an introduction to this new twist of the investigation. Let's wait and see.
well, seems like anything is possible in bolivia. i was also thinking possibly two different people could have been using the same false identity at different times...
i'm also waiting to see some kind of rebuttal or confirmation from the hungarian authorities on whether it is possible that flores made so many travels to bolivia throughout these years (regardless of how incredible these claims by the bolivian authorities seem in the first place). it would also be useful if US authorities could confirm or refute he or someone entered US on that name and whether there is a visa on that name, but not much hope there provided it was them who consciously gave him one...
however if the hungarian authorities remain silent on this issue, after a while i will have to assume they are involved in CIA backed operations in bolivia.
so, i'm waiting to see a meaningful explanation and some kind of public statement by the hungarian authorities...
i'm glad miami surfaced in this, so now there can be a confrontation and one of the sides can be proven a liar. i see no reason why hungarian authorities would refrain from refuting these claims if they are indeed false.
... exigimos la conformación de una Comisión Internacional para la investigación y esclarecimiento de los hechos de violencia perpetrados en nuestra ciudad en el mes de abril.
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/pronunciamiento-del-pueblo-cruceo/
Hungary, Ireland, Croatia and Romania must also insist that there be an impartial international commission formed in order to imparitally investigate the circumstances in which eduardo rózsa-flores, michael dwyer and árpád magyarosi were killed and mario tadić and előd tóásó captured. the morales authorities are not investigating these killings at all. all that they are doing regarding this incident is destroying evidence from the very beginning.
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/presentacin-del-libro-la-masacre-del-hotel-las-amricas-de-emilio-martnez/
here some more dates about supposed trips made by jorge hurtado flores (or actually, just like you predicted, it seems they were made by various jorges hurtados, some of whom are supposedly minor and some of whom got their tickets paid by embassy of venezuela. they got information from the avio company only for people named jorge hurtado and they've been claiming for days (and still do) all these trips were made by rozsa-flores. in the last sentence only it says they are still checking the list. but before they're done checking they already published this info as if it was verified and true and as if all these trips were made by rozsa-flores. it's completely insane.)
JORGE HURTADO FLORES es uno de los alias con los que Eduardo Rózsa Flores se movía por todo el país.
EL PRIMER VIAJE del líder del grupo irregular se produjo entre Santa Cruz, La Paz y Cochabamba, periplo que cumplió entre el 16 y el 19 de febrero de 2006.
EDUARDO RÓZSA visitó la ciudad de Cobija (Pando) en dos ocasiones: entre el 23 y el 26 de marzo de 2006 y entre el 2 y el 5 de agosto de 2008, un mes antes de la “masacre de Porvenir”.
EL 19 DE DICIEMBRE de 2006, el presunto mercenario ingresó en territorio nacional desde Puerto Suárez (Santa Cruz) y compró su boleto a una agencia de viajes de Corumbá, Brasil.
LA PAZ, COCHABAMBA y Santa Cruz fueron los destinos internos más comunes del boliviano-croata-húngaro.
EL PERSONAJE visitó la ciudad de Sucre en una ocasión: el 8 de febrero de 2007. El listado de vuelos no consigna uno de regreso hacia el eje del país, por lo que debió dejar esa capital por vía terrestre.
LA CIUDAD estadounidense de Miami fue el destino en tres oportunidades del presunto terrorista. En las tres ocasiones ingresó con el nombre de Jorge Hurtado Flores.
ESE CIUDADANO boliviano debió tener una visa por determinado tiempo para ingresar en territorio de Estados Unidos.
DESDE SU LLEGADA al país, en febrero de 2006, el periodo más largo en el que Rózsa Flores estuvo fuera de Bolivia, comprendió entre el 24 de agosto y el 4 de noviembre de 2007.
PARA EFECTUAR ese viaje empleó la ruta La Paz-Santa Cruz- Sao Paulo y el regreso fue entre esa ciudad industrial brasileña y la capital cruceña.
EL 19 DE FEBRERO de 2007, Rózsa Flores viajó a Madrid (España). Fue el periplo más largo que cumplió antes de su muerte. Retornó al país a través de otra aerolínea.
UN RÁPIDO DESPLAZAMIENTO fue el que hizo entre Santa Cruz, Buenos Aires, Asunción del Paraguay y Santa Cruz.
PARA EFECTUAR ese viaje llevó una maleta que pesó 25 kilogramos y estuvo fuera entre el 12 y el 16 de abril de 2007.
EL SERVICIO DEPARTAMENTAL del Deporte autorizó el uso del intercambio de servicios firmado con AeroSur para que Rózsa Flores cubriera cuatro rutas.
LOS ÚLTIMOS EXTRANJEROS en llegar a Bolivia fueron Mario Tádic Astorga, el 11 de febrero de 2009, y Árpád Magyarosi, el 20 de febrero de este año. Ambos aterrizaron procedentes de Madrid (España).
EL REPORTE DE LA AEROLÍNEA consigna solamente el nombre de Jorge Hurtado, por lo que los investigadores averiguan si entre los viajeros hay algún homónimo.
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/el-dinero-para-la-autonoma-lleg-a-rzsa/
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/la-embajada-de-venezuela-y-el-pasaje-areo-de-un-jorge-hurtado-de-la-lista-de-csar-navarro/
there's more on this site but i still haven't read it all:
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/
my spanish is not so good, but i think that what is says in this sentence (from the text i posted in the comment above) is that the longest period flores spent outside bolivia since his arrival (in bolivia) (in february 2006) was between 24 of august till 04 of november 2007?:
DESDE SU LLEGADA al país, en febrero de 2006, el periodo más largo en el que Rózsa Flores estuvo fuera de Bolivia, comprendió entre el 24 de agosto y el 4 de noviembre de 2007.
and since they claim that he travelled mostly inside bolivia (like 90 trips), but only made 12 voyages abroad (from bolivia) that would mean he spent most of his time inside bolivia?
but i guess it doesn't really matter since this is all just too hillarious anyway since these are apparently data for all jorge hurtados that travelled inside and outside bolivia with this airline company in past 3 years. ????
of course these are just unverified and false misinformation from one airline company. probably we should wait and see how many jorges hurtadoes travelled with other companies in past 3 years (since evo became president)
more dates and destinations about trips made by god only knows which jorge hurtado
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/informacion-sobre-los-pasajes-aereos-para-los-supuestos-terroristas/
jorge hurtado (who ever the hell that is) travelled from santa cruz to la paz on the 20/08/2008… and from la paz to santa cruz on 23/08/2008. but on 22/08/2008 he sent me an email because he liked my blog (he had time to surf internet during all this time and write his own blog and read other people’s blogs and stuff in the mean time, you know, while he was resting from planning on how to “assassinate” president morales and numerous other people in bolivia) claiming he was writing from hungary. of course i cannot prove he really was in hungary at that time. but i sure hope other people can prove he was in hungary at some of the dates published here.
http://www.ernestojustiniano.org/2009/06/informacion-sobre-los-pasajes-aereos-para-los-supuestos-terroristas/
haven’t noticed anyone from bolivia coming to my blog that day. just from hungary and brazil i think (but not so sure anymore…
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